Talk:Turnip (terminology)

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Article names

I propose that turnip (brassica rapa) be moved here, a disambiguation page in line with Wikipedia:Manual of Style (disambiguation pages) be created at turnip (disambiguation), and the details of regional usage be moved to American and British English differences, Scottish English, Malaysian English, Singaporean English, Wiktionary, or wherever appropriate. — Pekinensis 17:21, 9 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Entirely disagree. That would be to prejudice one cultural history over against another. As things stand, any of us can type in the word and be led straight to a balanced explanation of where we need to go for which meaning. --Doric Loon 12:54, 2 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Scottish usage

I lived in Scotland for a few years, and have several Scottish friends. I never heard any Scot call a Brassica rapa a "swede": the only time I ever heard or saw the phrase in Scotland was in an Edinburgh branch of Tesco's, where the swedes/yellow turnips/rutabagas were labelled "swede turnips" (presmably because Tesco's is an English supermarket). The Rutabaga page says the Scots call B. rapa "white turnips". — Franey 12:45, 2 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly because you don't see them in Scotland very often? --Doric Loon 12:54, 2 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

So, do you call "white" turnips swedes? — Franey 13:38, 2 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I think I do, but I can't remember ever actually eating one, so maybe I've just picked it up wrongly. What I do know for certain (and you aren't arguing this point, I know) is that this article is right about what Scots mean by turnip. --Doric Loon 15:02, 2 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I prefer the Scots usage: "turnip" is a much cooler word than "swede", and swedes (in the southern English sense) are bigger, cheaper, tastier, and much more "turnipy"-looking than their paler cousins. —Franey 16:32, 2 December 2005 (UTC).[reply]

I'm Scottish - we used to eat swedes (ie white turnips) a lot when I was younger. We always called them swedes and so did my mother, who would have been 83 if she were still alive. You're right, though, Doric Loon, you don't see them in the shops in Scotland v. often these days. I would only ever use them for soup though - "proper" neeps taste much better when mashed. --Bulgy's Quine 19:06, 2 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I too am Scottish, and as I was growing up called white turnips, turnips. However, we were always being reprimanded for this, as we were told that their real name was swede and that turnips were for pigs. --Bob 22:36, 15 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I suspect you were actually eating yellow turnip when you were younger - and so were correct in calling them Swede - some of them are fairly pale in colour. It is unlikely that white turnip were widely available in Scotland 20 years ago. I think it is incorrect to say anybody referred to white turnip as swede (except by mistake or ignorance). I would like to see the suggestion that Scots refer to white turnip as Swede deleted - I think this idea is gathering momentum solely due to this wikipedia article. --Tattieman2 (talk) 14:42, 13 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

When I was a student I worked in Safeway. We had to do a course in identifying vegetables. We got to the turnips, and since I was always one to call a turnip a turnip, that is what I said it was. I got repremanded by my supervisor for not calling it a swede. For a while, I made a determined effort to complain to supermarkets who call a turnip a swede. I've never seen a swede that I wouldn't call a turnip --Colin Angus Mackay 16:29, 26 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I'm Scottish but have lived in England for the majority of my life. In my (wholly Scottish) family, the English tendency to sub-divide turnips was often held up as an example of the strange and arcane peculiarity of southerners; it is certainly not the case that the English always invert the Scottish terms therefore, in my experience. Hopefully wikipedia can make a profound contribution to this serious issue. Scotland: Where men are men and turnips are turnips. Badgerpatrol 18:22, 30 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The large one (Swede in RP) is called a "neep" in Scotland, but the small one (rapa) is called a "tumshie" traditionally. Swedes are proper "neeps". The name derives from Old Norse, not Old English in this case.--MacRusgail 16:02, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest the word Tumshie in Scotland also refers to the large yellow turnip. Is it possible that people who do not know white turnip and do not use the word tumshie have mistakenly matched them up? --Tattieman2 (talk) 14:42, 13 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

All seems very confusing, but I don't think ANYONE can define what the the things are called in Scotland because it would seem that even Scottish people disagree. In my mind a 'turnip' AKA 'swede' AKA 'neep' is the big yellow/purple one and the small white one is called a 'white turnip', not that you ever really see them. I would have also said that a 'tumshie' was a yellow/purple turnip, but it the kind of word that I have only ever seen in Oor Wullie anyway! Now, I would argue with anyone who says that a white turnip should be called a swede. HOWEVER the fact that some people DO call it a swede means that we are not really going to get anywhere with a useful disambiguation page!

In my opinion, in Scotland the Yellow Turnip is best know as the neep or turnip, also known as the tumshie, and occasionally knows as the Swede. The White Turnip is not well known in Scotland, but it may be known as Milan Turnip, White Turnip, neep, wee neep. It is never known as a Swede. This is my first day Wikipedia editing (inspired by this article) so will not change the main article but would appreciate feedback.--Tattieman2 (talk) 14:52, 13 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

BTW I have just noticed that I can't get the tilde to work on this Japanese keyboard. I will come back and own up to these comments. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ewan carmichael (talk • contribs) 06:01, 12 January 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Neep

"Neep" is not a shortening of the English word "turnip", although the last syllable of "turnip" is cognate. The term derives from Old Norse. It is a common mistake to derive certain forms, e.g. "drucken" from corruptions of English ("drunken") without realising they derive from another language.--MacRusgail 16:07, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You're correct that "neep" is not a shortening of "turnip". But the OED says that Old English naep came directly from Latin nāpus, and the Norse came from Old English. --ABehrens (talk) 02:46, 11 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Canada

I removed the row for "Canada (Atlantic Provinces and Ontario)", which had an entry under B. Napus that says "turnip" and nothing else. This appears completely incorrect by my own experience, so without a citation I think it was worthless.

In my own experience in Southern Ontario, supermarkets label B. Rapa Rapa as "turnips" and B. Napus as "rutabaga". I do find that people who seldom eat either will sometimes refer to both of them as "turnips". I am unfamiliar with Pachyrhizus (the name "yam" is generally given to either yams or sometimes sweet potatoes).

Obviously my own experience isn't a valid citation, either. I'm just pointing out that at face value the information is wrong, so was not worth keeping. - Rainwarrior (talk) 17:35, 28 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Disputed

Some points:

The yam column does not agree with the Yam dab page or the articles Yam (vegetable), Pachyrhizus, or Pachyrhizus erosus
The preferred name for "Brassica napus or B. napobrassica" seems to be Brassica napus subsp. rapifera per the "Taxon identifiers" links in rutabaga
The attempt to reduce the number of rows is misguided as it invites ridiculous inferences. I don't believe South Yorkshire knows much about jicama, and I've never heard anyone in Ireland say "neep", unless recounting a recent trip to Scotland.
It may be that Scots use "swede" for white turnip, but in Ireland I've only ever heard it as a less-common synonym for the [yellow] turnip
Does nobody in SE Asia ever speak of Brassicas? Or is the "also called" row meant to be part of the same row?
The name Turnip (terminology) should be Turnip (word) or Terminology of turnips

jnestorius^(talk) 01:35, 8 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Turnip" also refers to a daikon in Hong Kong

As per the title of the section, the word "turnip" in Hong Kong refers to a daikon (Raphanus sativus var. longipinnatus).^[1] That means we have to add another column to the table.

I don't know if I've ever seen any of B. rapa rapa or P. erosus in Hong Kong, so I don't know what either of them are called here, but I think I've seen B. napus as both "swede" and "rutabaga".

From personal experience, the word "turnip" may be falling out of use in favour of "white radish", but I can't provide any hard evidence for this. Edderiofer (talk) 10:10, 17 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Also, it would be nice if other people could fill in the R. Sativus var. longipinnatus column for other regions. Edderiofer (talk) 13:38, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Cummings, Patrick J., and Hans-Georg Wolf. A Dictionary of Hong Kong English: Words from the Fragrant Harbor (p. 178). 1st ed., Hong Kong University Press, 2011.

[1] Cummings, Patrick J., and Hans-Georg Wolf. A Dictionary of Hong Kong English: Words from the Fragrant Harbor (p. 178). 1st ed., Hong Kong University Press, 2011.

[1]