User talk:Doctorow

Welcome!

Hello, Doctorow, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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Whosyourjudas (talk) 20:37, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Your VT100 T-shirt

Hello! I was unfortunate enough to miss your talk in Oslo, though I later caught it on a video recording - excellent stuff. Also love your books. :)

Anyway, as the retrogeek I am, I immediately fell in love with your "I love my VT-100" shirt - I don't have a VT100 yet, but when I do I shall indeed love it. Where did you get this shirt? Google was fruitless. Thanks. toresbe 06:03, 12 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Would you be as kind?

I'd like to ask your help in improving the Vorbis article. If it becomes a featured article at Wp, it will bring attention to Ogg and free media formats in general, which as you know are very anti-DRM per-si. I suppose with your writing skills you can do better than occasional fixes in your own article, but you are free to do as you will.--Ivo Emanuel Gonçalves/Saoshyant ^{talk / contribs} 16:10, 17 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Making Light

Making Light hosts attacks on myself and other Wikipedia editors. Please see WP:NPA#Linking to attack sites. ·:·Will Beback ·:· 23:40, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A criticism is not the same thing as an "attack." Making Light, a notable and oft-cited site, hosts thousands of posts by several authors, many of them germane to Wikipedia articles, written by people who have deep knowledge of their fields. None of the references you've removed attack you or other Wikipedia authors. Doctorow 23:43, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it is an attack site. If the owners of that site remove the attacks then it will cease to be an attack site. ·:·Will Beback ·:· 23:44, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please also note that the 3RR rule does not apply to removing attack sites. I will continue to revert the restoration of links until the matter is resolved. ·:·Will Beback ·:· 23:46, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Are all criticisms attacks, in your view? If the New York Times published a critical remark about Jimbo, would it be necessary to remove every single link on Wikipedia to nytimes.com until they retracted the article? Doctorow 23:47, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not talking about criticisms, I'm talking about personal attacks. ·:·Will Beback ·:· 23:49, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've read the material and in my view, it is a criticism. What is your operating definition of an attack? Doctorow 23:51, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Calling people derogatory names and publishing personal information count as attacks, not criticism. ·:·Will Beback ·:· 23:53, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please stop restoring the links to the site until the attacks have been removed. ·:·Will Beback ·:· 23:54, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Critical terms are not derogatory. I don't see anything particularly revealing in the "personal information." This is unseemly. You appear to be attempting to punish someone who dislikes you by removing references to her site. This seems like retaliation, not an effort to improve Wikipedia. What's more, the repeated demand to change something posted to her site seems like extortion, not an attempt to improve Wikipedia. TNH claims that Wikipedians pursue petty vendettas at the expense of quality. Please conduct yourself in a way that does not lend itself to this interpretation of the project.Doctorow 23:57, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

On the contrary, I'd say that TNH has acted punitively in revenge for perceived problems with Wikipedia. Regardless of her motivation Wikipedia does not tolerate personal attacks on editors. If she removes the personal attacks then I won't object to restoring the links where appropriate. ·:·Will Beback ·:· 00:00, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. The distinction between "personal attack" and "criticism" is subjective and editors should err on the side of caution, especially when they are the subject of criticism (in such times, it is hard to be neutral and to appear neutral). Perhaps you should try to resolve this with TNH. In any event, it is simply a fact that, for example, TNH is a prominent member of the LDS, removing her from this list because she doesn't like you very much is clearly not the intent of WP:NPA#Linking to attack sites. Redacting relevant facts from the encyclopedia because the person who uttered them doesn't like you isn't a good way to produce an encyclopedia. Doctorow 00:06, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't remove her name. I removed the link to the attack site. If you think "talentless troll" and "pismire of some variety" are criticisms then I'd be curious to know what you regard as an attack. The publishing of personal information is an attack, there's no debate about that. On the other hand, I have never called TNH any name, so this is unprovoked. ·:·Will Beback ·:· 00:10, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm, strong stuff. There looks to be a fair bit of history there, with a lot more to it than just name-calling. I've been bouncing around, looking at various pages, and, Mr. Beback, you look a lot like an abusive stalker. Regrettable though it may be, I can't find it in my heart to blame Mrs. Hayden for her words. Still, you may leave a lasting mark: your actions seem set to be a prime example of why the attack-sites proposal should be given the full bell, book, and candle treatment. Zhochaka 19:13, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please stop reverting these edits. If you haven't already, you should read WP:3RR. Also, please don't paste an article's text into a talk page, as you've done here: Talk:Vanity press. 00:13, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

My apologies for pasting into the talk section -- it was an error. Thank you for fixing it. Please stop removing links to Making Light from articles where they are germane. Doctorow 00:15, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'll be happy to stop removing the links when the owner of the website removes the personal attacks. ·:·Will Beback ·:· 00:17, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You are a Wikipedia editor; this does not confer upon you the right to edit other peoples' websites, too. This is extremely unseemly and has the appearance of an abusive vendetta. I don't believe that you, as the subject of the criticism in question, are able to appear or maintain neutrality in this matter. Elsewhere, I mentioned that the litmus test you're proposing for an "attack site" (someone posts something critical about you on a message board) would disqualify Slashdot should someone on its message boards say something nasty about me. The Boston Globe has message boards: if TNH posted something critical about you there, would you remove every link to the Boston Globe from Wikipedia? Doctorow 00:22, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

JulesH's Talk page has some good material on this:

"(edit conflict) That policy states that "Links or references to off-site personal attacks against Wikipedians should be removed". None of the links you have removed are to personal attacks, but rather to useful information that is relevant to the articles at hand. I don't have time to examine the entire site for such personal attacks, so I will assume that you're not making it up and there is one. It doesn't matter. The policy only applies to links directly to the attacks, not to entirely different content on the same site that happens to also contain such an attack. JulesH 00:22, 28 May 2007 (UTC)"

Please replace the edits to Making Light. Doctorow 00:27, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

See my essay for commentary on the whole contentious "attack sites" issue. *Dan T.* 04:15, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What a great essay. Thanks, Dan!Doctorow 04:28, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ML, TNH, WBB, TLA AD NAUS

I think that WBB's problem with ML would be that various contributors to the discussion, including TNH herself, posted links to, not just an ED article, but to a specific version of the article from last August which mentioned WBB. While I respect TNH as a person, and admire her work, I feel that linking to an ED article is very rarely a good idea. WBB's reaction to TNH's posting the link is excessive, yes, but have you read what ED said about him?!

(While I have your attention, I enjoyed Somebody Comes To Town, but the basic premise of Eastern Standard Tribe broke my WSOD.) DS 16:24, 30 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The article TransAtlantic Fan Fund has been nominated for deletion

... in case you have any opinions on its notability, etc. --Orange Mike 15:49, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Jewish atheism?

Hey Cory,

In your own Wikipedia article, you pushed to mention that you were Jewish, had a Bar Mitzvah, etc., but an atheist, and didn't believe in any supernatural. I understand that, because I'm in the same boat as you are in this regard. Still, I thought you mentioned in BoingBoing that you were a second-generation atheist. How did it work that you were raised with the religion then? I'm curious. Thanks for your response. I love your work with BoingBoing.--Seth Goldin (talk) 16:25, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I attended a secular Yiddish school where we learned Jewish history (including religious history) and I learned to (haltingly) read the Hebrew alphabet. My Bar Mitzvah was performed by a pacifist rabbi in Toronto, mostly for my grandparents' benefit. I always went to high holiday dinners at my grandparents' house, attended synagogue for weddings, Bar Mitzvahs and funerals, sat shiva, etc.

Wish it would actually change something

I loved the BitTorrent article, Cory. I just wish someone from big media would actually heed the point, but I sincerely doubt that'll happen. Silver seren^C 19:04, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Quoted you in a discussion

I quoted you in a discussion at Talk:Websense#Article_under_attack_by_Websense_illegal_astroturfing_campaign_censoring_criticism.2C_the_word_.22censor.22_or_.22filter.22_and_disparaging_Amnesty_International (RE Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Websense,_Inc.) (There's also some discussions around the WP:PAIDWATCH related stuff you might be interested in, basically some groups supported by Silver seren above trying to bully Jimmy and Wikimedia into relaxing the rules on paied editing it seems like while whitewashing it all as "cooperation"... I do not know Silver Seren's real name or if he is part of their group: User_talk:Philippe_(WMF)#Wikimania_Panel)

Wikipedians also recommend biscuits with tea.

Mistress Selina Kyle ^{(Α⇔Ω ¦ ⇒✉)} has given you a cup of tea. Tea promotes WikiLove and hopefully this has made your day ever so slightly better.

Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a tea, especially if it is someone you have had disagreements with in the past or someone putting up with some stick at this time. Enjoy!

Spread the lovely, warm, refreshing goodness of tea by adding {{subst:wikitea}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

--Mistress Selina Kyle ^{(Α⇔Ω ¦ ⇒✉)} 19:13, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Quoted you on a recent blog post

Hey Doctorow, I quoted your commentary on Wikipedia for Wikimania 2014 in a recent blog post http://alexstinson.wordpress.com/2013/08/27/why-wikipedia-matters-for-academia/ . Thanks so much for the important commentary and support of the community over the years, Sadads (talk) 15:09, 4 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! 14:44, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Anything that I can do to help...

I just wanted to let you know that if you need anything done on Wikipedia, I will be happy to assist. I have been editing Wikipedia for 12 years, have made 40,000 edits, and am the author of the essays at WP:1AM and WP:CANCER and of the Wikimedia referrer policy proposal.

I have as many of your printed works as I have been able to find, I read Boing Boing every day, and I make regular donations to the EFF, largely because of you. I know you are busy and can't pay a lot of attention to individual fanboys, but I please add me to your contact list; I will be here if you ever need me. --Guy Macon (talk) 21:37, 4 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Re:[1], would you like me to put together a proposal for a Wikipedia blackout like we did for SOPA? If so, I should start right away -- our decision-making process is really slow. --Guy Macon (talk) 21:37, 4 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, Guy! That is incredibly generous! I don't know much about how stuff like banners and blackouts get organized on WP, but any help you could lend in marshalling support for an EU banner/blackout would be VERY appreciated.

For example, is it appropriate to publicize the existence of the poll and invite people to participate? Or is that considered bad form?Doctorow (talk) 01:15, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Not bad form at all, but read WP:CANVASSING carefully first. Also, I am just starting to compose a draft proposal for a blackout. I would wait until it is ready (should be within a couple of days) before publicizing, and I would run any proposed publicity by a few experienced editors to see if anyone thinks it violates the canvassing rule. More on this later.

Someone already posted a proposal for the banner at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Banner in EU countries explaining dangerous European Parliament copyright proposal and linking to SaveYourInternet.eu Might I suggest that you go there and cast a !vote and then hang around doing a bit of answering questions and responding to comments? (Not too much, we have a policy on that as well: WP:BLUDGEON.)

Our rules are weird, but mostly it all works -- and when we decide to do something, it gets a lot of attention. --Guy Macon (talk) 03:38, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! My read from WP:CANVASSING is that it's not good form to ask Twitter followers something like, "If you're a Wikipedian, please go look at this thing" -- alas, I don't know enough about WP projects to target them on WP, only through (e.g.) Boing Boing, Twitter, etc.Doctorow (talk) 14:49, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

What you could do right away is to post something well-thought-out at Boing Boing explaining the expected effects of the EU law on Wikipedia, and (at least for now while we craft a proposal) not mentioning that some Wikipedia regulars are starting the process of deciding to enact either a banner or a blackout. If only we knew someone with some experience putting words on paper that folks find worth reading... (smile).

Also, I am working behind the scenes with some key members of the Wikimedia Foundation to see if we can get an official announcement of their position on this. The above-mentioned Boing Boing post (or perhaps something on the EFF website? or both?) would help me to convince them, especially if it was heavy on facts and light on emotion.

On a related front, please see this question at the help desk: Wikipedia:Help desk#Technical question about blackouts. Still working on a proposal. More later. --Guy Macon (talk) 15:39, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Also, our newly created article Directive on Copyright in the Digital Single Market is certain to gather a lot of attention. It's just a start now, but will rapidly expand and improve. See Net neutrality in the United States#Opposition to net neutrality and Net neutrality in the United States#Support of net neutrality for the usual way we handle these sorts of political issues. --Guy Macon (talk) 15:48, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Guy! I'm working on an article discussing the impact of Art 13 on Wikipedia, and I've been directing the experts I know to work on that WP entry.

For your reference, I found a statement by the Wikimedia Foundation: [ https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/06/06/european-copyright-directive-proposal/ ] --!Guy Macon (talk) 22:54, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That is fabulous! Do you think I should add it to the discussion on the vote? Would it be better coming from you? Doctorow (talk) 01:28, 6 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Better from you, with a brief preface saying who you are and your relation with the EFF. --Guy Macon (talk) 01:50, 6 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Done -- I hope I did that right; I put a signed note at the top noting the existence of the post and then edited my vote to include it along with a note about my relationship to EFF.

Guy, can you email me at doctorow@craphound.com please? I'd like to discuss some things in private.

Done. (Geeky security measure to make impersonating me harder: Look for an email sent before this message was posted that contains the string "794047" in the email address.) --Guy Macon (talk) 00:50, 7 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you

I just wanted to thank you and also EFF for all the work you have been doing. Fighting for Wikipedia and causes like them being threatened by ill informed policy makers. Thank you for doing so, even when Wikipedia doesn't want to fight for itself. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 08:37, 17 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome. I'm worried that the effort to alert Wikipedians died, and that this was our best hope. To be honest, I'm not feeling very optimistic about our chances. I was hoping that we could kill this before it becomes law, now it looks like we'll end up in court fighting for WP's right to exist in 5-10 years, possibly spending millions. It's a catastrophe and a real failing of the WP community that it couldn't see the urgency, or at least, that it couldn't act on it. Doctorow (talk) 12:26, 17 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Many Wikipedians just want to write an encyclopedia (understandably) but take the luxury of that freedom to do so for granted, hoping that things will 'just work out'. I feel this has intensified as politics has become more divided over the last couple of years. People are afraid of importing this into Wikipedia. This leaves us in a place, where we are not very likely to fight until things become law and actually start feeling the effects, which is very dangerous if you ask me as well as terribly selfish. "First they came" and all that.

Thank you for Little Brother. It opened my eyes in many ways. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 17:56, 17 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for this. I'm sure you're right about the underlying dynamic, but it's brutal to watch it play out. Fiddling while the wiki burns.Doctorow (talk) 18:02, 17 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A toast sandwich for you!

started the lost cause! 🐍 🐦DrWho42👻 07:10, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]