Talk:Eberhard Arnold

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User 64.72.66.122 edited out the following: "After Arnold's death, the Bruderhof was led by his son, Heinrich Arnold, and is currently under the leadership of Johann Christoph Arnold, Heinrich's son. Other brethren that respect the teaching of Eberhard Arnold have withdrawn for the Bruderhof, citing what they claim are "totalitarian" tendencies."

Unless that user or someone else can show that this information is incorrect, I will be adding it back to the article. Did these two men not follow Eberhard Arnold in leadership? As far as those that have withdrawn and claim the present Bruderhof has "totalitarian" tendencies", the article does not say they are correct - just that this is their viewpoint. Whether they are correct or not, it is their viewpoint.

The same user has shown the same tendency in the Bruderhof article - the tendency to remove anything that might be construed as negative. IMO, both articles discuss fairly indifferently the fact that there are those who have both positive and negative views about some things concerning the Bruderhof. - Rlvaughn 21:47, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Oops, sorry, after coming here from Purported cults, I just reflexively restored the deleted sentences.

Regards, Fire Star 15:42, 21 Feb 2004 (UTC)

The sentences were removed because they contain a number of factual errors. There was a period of 25 years after Eberhard Arnold's death when the Bruderhof was lead by someone else before Heinrich Arnold became elder in 1962, and currently the leadership is not under Johann Christoph Arnold. Regarding the second sentence, I am not aware of any brethren that fit this description.

It would be better to correct factual errors rather than just delete material. I found the dates of Heinrich's leadership and clarified that in the article. This site - http://www.christopharnold.com/jca/Bio/index.htm - would make it appear that Johann Christoph Arnold is the leader (Arnold is senior pastor of the Bruderhof - an international communal movement dedicated to a life of simplicity, service, sharing, and nonviolence). Can you address the issue more clearly, since you seem to be an insider? As far as the second sentence, your not being of aware of something does not make it a factual error. - Rlvaughn 18:33, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

As a Bruderhof member I can clarify this. The Bruderhof has several senior pastors, but only one elder and one assistant elder. Johann Christoph Arnold served as elder from 1983 to 2001. I have changed the article reflect this. - JoeHine 11:34, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Joe, thanks for the clarifications. I noticed that you changed "Other brethren that respect the teaching of Eberhard Arnold have withdrawn for the Bruderhof, citing what they claim are 'totalitarian' tendencies." to "Some former members have criticized the Arnolds' leadership." User 64.72.66.122, also a Bruderhof member, objected to all the information, stating that it was not relevant to the article. IMO, the first part was relevant, in that it showed his family following in his footsteps. The later part was relevant in that it showed Arnold's influence extended beyond the Bruderhof. As it stands the way you have changed the last part, it shifts the direction from how people feel/felt about E. Arnold (respect his teachings) to how people feel/felt about the leadership of his son and grandson. Am I incorrect in thinking that some people felt that the modern leadership went further away from the teachings of Arnold? I have gotten that impression from things I have read on the subject. I think there needs to be some statement in this article that there are people (even if we leave off about those who've withdrawn from the Bruderhof) who have read Arnold, have been blessed by some of his teachings, while believing the community lifestyle is not necessary. - Rlvaughn 22:07, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I agree. I've changed the article to reflect this. - JoeHine 09:39, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

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