Talk:Recorder (musical instrument)

Baroque Recorder range

Is it true that the standard range for Baroque recorders is only two octaves and a tone? Telemann, Bach and Vivaldi at least regularly use notes beyond this range; it is true that few such works are available in modern editions, but that is because of the false belief in the restricted range: the Urtext editions reveal the use of the high notes as a matter of course. Telemann uses a full two octaves and a fifth, with the top note in a piece aimed at amateurs: his Sonata in F from 'Der getreuer Musikmeister'.AdgeOldtown (talk) 01:03, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

While it is true that Telemann writes one high C in the F Major sonata, it may be significant that he does not include any of the notes between it and the G below (the "normal" top note for the alto recorder in F). There is also a high A in the F major concerto, but that work proves to be a transposition, made by another hand (possibly Graupner) of a flute concerto originally in D major. Are there any other examples from Telemann? If not, I would say that Telemann does not "regularly" write these notes. Can you tell me which works of Vivaldi and Bach exceed the range of two octaves and a tone? I cannot think of any examples from these composers.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 01:11, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean by 'standard', but most any off-the-shelf "baroque recorder" will give you two octaves and a third (e.g. c4-e6). 2003:EF:2F02:3100:4545:6392:9684:AA1F (talk) 15:43, 26 June 2020 (UTC) KMPfeiffer

The Telemann F major concerto is controversial, surely. But in any case Telemann uses top f# frequently; for instance in "Der Geduldige Sokrate" the recorder soloist frequently uses top F# and there may be a high A - I believe the reading is disputed. Bach - yes, I think Bach is an error on my part: it arose from overlooking the pitch difference between his organ and instruments. Vivaldi uses for instance a high f in his Flautino Concerto which is for 'descant' recorder in D - that corresponds to high Ab in the recorder.AdgeOldtown (talk) 15:05, 30 April 2020 (UTC)AdgeOldtown (talk) 14:05, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

References

German fingering

Can this really be correct? (Ask I as a player who uses recorders in both German and Baroque fingering)

'Unfortunately, however, this makes many other chromatic notes too out of tune to be usable.[40]'

Not to my ear, if you use the correct standard German fingerings. If you use baroque fingering for everything except f/b flat, yes, but why should one use baroque fingering on a German fingering instrument? The main problem with German fingering (if you ask me) is that upper b (on the alto), with an isolated little finger in the right hand, is rather uncomfortable for small hands and tricky to always get perfectly right, especially in fast jumps, also, the sound quality of that note isn't good (murky and can't be modulated much). I am not an expert so I don't dare to change this on my own, please can someone better qualified have a look.

178.4.212.250 (talk) 18:13, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

As you observed, that sentence is sourced to Rowland-Jones, unfortunately without a page number. If you find a source supporting your statement, please insert it. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 00:51, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Sizes of recorders, &c.

Earlier in my life, I was an amateur player, semi–pro for CDSS dances in NYC; also quite interested in them as well. While I have read only perhaps ⅓ of the article (it's rather an online book, a wondrous magnum opus!), I did try to discover all sizes of modern instruments, and concluded some decades ago that there are about ten in the C F series. Herewith: Sub Contrabass in F

? Contrabass (?) in C (Fading memory!)

Contrabass in F (?) (Paetzold/Kuenath?) Great bass in C Bass (Basset, according to one or more sources) Tenor Alto Soprano Sopranino in F Exilent, also Garklein Flötlein) in C [ ] (name forgotten), iirc in F Sorry, it's been more than a decade since I even thought about these. The exilent was made of ABS plastic, brand name Aulos; I still own one. The last was an octave above the sopranino, made in Europe for a short while, around 1990 by (iirc a Dutch) couple. I saw and played it at the makers' booth at a Boston Early Music Festival (&) Exhibition, perhaps around 1992. Have forgotten makers' names and what they called it. IIrc, it covered a full two octaves (not sure)., possibly even chromatics, not just diatonic. Fingers were interleaved! Hole 1, left index; hole 2, right index, etc. Thumb hole, of course. Nevertheless finger patterns for each hand were familiar, creating lots of forked patterns for a common diatonic scale. That was really surprising. Thanks be, my fingers are fairly narrow, and gaps between minimal. ••••• I still own von Huene tenor #362, iirc, made to (best guess) A=432, and retuned (well) to A=440. Its upper octave speaks with perceptible difficulty, and the thumb hole bushing's outer edge just meets the head joint. The latter was bored deeper, and the tenon extended. Apparently, the Yamaha ABS plastic tenor design is based on that of the von Huene tenors. Best recollection is that they collaborated. My tenor was made to an odd pitch before makers realized that doing so was a bad idea. They courteously and honorably "disown" it, not even telling me what pitch it was made to. (I bought it from its original owner.)

Regarding plastics, ABS has been, and may well still be the best (except for 3–D printing!) It's acrylonitrile butadiene styrene, and proportions of its constituents can be tailored to its application.

User:nikevich (son of Nicholas Bessaraboff) 100.0.210.214 (talk) 15:38, 8 July 2022 (UTC)